'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence

[Ottavio Caruso]

How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?

Can we use this general rule:

Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

Ottavio

[g***@ankerstein.org]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

No. The meanings of both words will depend on the rest of the
sentence.

GFH

[Einde O'Callaghan]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

No. "Denn" often means "for" (the conjunction, not the preposition) at
the beginning of a sentence or clause. "Da" often means "since" when
used as a conjunction.

Gruß, Einde O'Callaghan

[Ekkehard Dengler]

Post by Einde O'Callaghan

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

No. "Denn" often means "for" (the conjunction, not the preposition) at
the beginning of a sentence or clause. "Da" often means "since" when
used as a conjunction.

That is, "because".

Regards,
Ekkehard

[Ekkehard Dengler]

Post by Ekkehard Dengler

Post by Einde O'Callaghan

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

No. "Denn" often means "for" (the conjunction, not the preposition) at
the beginning of a sentence or clause. "Da" often means "since" when
used as a conjunction.

That is, "because".

Sorry if my previous post was a little curt. I felt clarification was needed
(because "since" can have two different meanings), but had little time.

Regards,
Ekkehard

[Einde O'Callaghan]

Post by Ekkehard Dengler

Post by Einde O'Callaghan

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a sentence,
when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

No. "Denn" often means "for" (the conjunction, not the preposition) at
the beginning of a sentence or clause. "Da" often means "since" when
used as a conjunction.

That is, "because".

"Since" tha two meanings - one connected with time (both a preposition
and a conjunction) and the other (only a conjunction) giving the reason
for something, where it has a similar meaning to "because". But for me
there is a subtle difference between "since" and "because" in this sense.

Gruß, Einde O'Callaghan

[Wayne Brown]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
How would you translate 'Denn' and 'Da' at the beginning of a
sentence,when they are not followed by any other clause?
Denn= dann (then, rather than 'as')
Da = (there, rather than 'as') ?

If "denn" in a simple sentence is translated "then," it can be
expected not to start the sentence: "Was soll ich denn machen"
(what should I do then)? Often English leaves out the word in
translation and tries to find another way to express the
meaning, which is enhanced by "denn": "Was ist denn los" (what
on earth is going on)? If "denn" does indeed start a sentence,
the English conjunction "for" usually comes into play in
translation. Goethe wrote: "Denn alle Schuld rächt sich auf
Erden" (for all guilt is avenged on earth). "Denn" should not be
brought into connection with "as" because that's not the way it
works.

"Da," on the other hand, can be translated "as," but that takes
us into English style issues. Many a native speaker of English
would surely avoid this usage of "as" in conversation because it
doesn't sound colloquial, and a native might prefer to use
"because/since": But there it's used to introduce a clause, and
that wasn't your question, as I understand it. "Da ich nicht die
Absicht habe, dich zu küssen, kannst du die Augen aufmachen."
The natural conversational translation of that would be, "Since
I don't have the intention..." "Da" can be used to start a
simple sentence with the meaning "there": "Da nimm's" (there,
take it); "Da haben wir's (there we have it -- in the sense of a
reproach). Sometimes it's translated "here," "Da stehe ich."
(Here I stand).

Regards, ----- WB.

[Ottavio Caruso]

Post by Wayne Brown
"Da" can be used to start a
simple sentence with the meaning "there": "Da nimm's" (there,
take it); "Da haben wir's (there we have it -- in the sense of a
reproach). Sometimes it's translated "here," "Da stehe ich."
(Here I stand).

Thanks!

Post by Wayne Brown
If "denn" does indeed start a sentence,
the English conjunction "for" usually comes into play in
translation. Goethe wrote: "Denn alle Schuld rächt sich auf
Erden" (for all guilt is avenged on earth). "Denn" should not be
brought into connection with "as" because that's not the way it
works.

Ok, so let's take this fragment from a colloquial speech:
"Dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten - Denn das hab ich schon
lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen bedürfiss wieder einmal
gehabt !!*g* "

It looks to me that Denn and Dann are interchangeable in this context
and both mean "there"..

Ottavio

[Oliver Cromm]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
"Dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten - Denn das hab ich schon
lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen bedürfiss wieder einmal
gehabt !!*g* "
It looks to me that Denn and Dann are interchangeable in this context
and both mean "there"..

Both "denn" here mean "because".
Minimal adaptation to a writing style:

| "Dann habe ich ihn wieder einmal geritten, *denn* das habe ich schon
| lange nicht mehr getan, *und* ich habe diesen Bedürfnis wieder einmal
| gehabt!"

[Oliver Cromm]

Post by Oliver Cromm
| "Dann habe ich ihn wieder einmal geritten, *denn* das habe ich schon
| lange nicht mehr getan, *und* ich habe diesen Bedürfnis wieder einmal

^^^^^^
dieses

Post by Oliver Cromm
| gehabt!"

[Ottavio Caruso]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
"Dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten - Denn das hab ich schon
lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen bedürfiss wieder einmal
gehabt !!*g* "
It looks to me that Denn and Dann are interchangeable in this context
and both mean "there"..

I, too, was in a hurry. Obviously I meant:"then", not "there"

Ottavio

[Wayne Brown]

Post by Ottavio Caruso

Post by Ottavio Caruso
"Dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten - Denn das hab ich
schon lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen bedürfiss
wieder einmal gehabt !!*g* "
It looks to me that Denn and Dann are interchangeable in this
context and both mean "there"..

I, too, was in a hurry. Obviously I meant:"then", not "there"

"Dann" is indeed translated "then " in this example, but "denn"
cannot be. [Then I haven't done that for a long time.] Who
could understand what the English means in such a context?

The situation is perfectly clear if one looks at the whole
German message about Horatio:

} heute war ich endlich wieder einmal bei meinem Hengst ! *g*
} ich hab ihn zuerst auf die Koppel geschmissen *g* und erst
] dann hab ich ihn geputzt ° denn er schaut so brutal
} aus ! naja ....

} dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten ° denn das hab ich
} schon lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen [sic]
} bedürfiss [sic] wieder einmal gehabt !!*g*

} naja bis morgen *hope*

Typical for "dann" is its use here in a sequence: "zuerst... und
erst dann..." "Zuerst" in this context is a telltale word
indicating what may be coming next. "Erst dann" is a tidy little
mechanism of expression in German that is translated "only then"
in English, which requires the following subject and verb to be
inverted: "...only then did I clean him up..."

"Denn" is a totally different ballgame and cannot be translated
"then." The poster explains _why_ the "Hengst" had to be cleaned
up: "...denn er schaut so brutal aus..." And yet other
explanations of _reasons_ for doing something: ... "denn das hab
ich schon lange nimma getan..." and ..."Denn ich hab dieses
Bedürfnis..." In both cases "because" is an appropriate
translation. "Then" here would should foreign in English.

Regards, ----- WB.

[Andreas Koch]

Post by Ottavio Caruso
"Dann hab ich ihn wieder einmal geritten - Denn das hab ich schon
lange nimma getan ! Denn ich habe diesen bedürfiss wieder einmal
gehabt !!*g* "
It looks to me that Denn and Dann are interchangeable in this context
and both mean "there"..

Ehm, no. They are absolutely not interchangeable in the german text.
I'd translate the "Dann" to "then" (time context) and the
"Denn"s to "because".