Q: durch/hindurch

[zvf1336]

In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?
Or is "durch den Zaun hindurch" required to say "go through"?
Thank you for your help.

[g***@ankerstein.org]

Post by zvf1336
In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?

Then, on which side of der Zaun are you? Both hin and her are
meaningful.

GFH

[Helmut Richter]

Post by zvf1336
In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?
Or is "durch den Zaun hindurch" required to say "go through"?

"durch" and "hindurch" have different grammatical function. "durch" is a
preposition, "hindurch" is part of the separable verb (something akin to
an English phrasal verb) "hindurchgehen".

Let me take another example. "hineingehen" means "go in". When I say "ich
gehe in den Laden", the verb is "gehen" (walk, go) and the preposition is
"in" (into): "I go into the shop". Now, when I want to use the verb
"hineingehen" (go in), I get both "in" and "hinein": "ich gehe in den
Laden hinein", literally translated into English "I go in into the shop".
Not really good English style, but you can see the different function of
"in" (into) and "hinein[gehen]" ([go] in).

Verbs can have different ways to attach nouns: with a preposition or with
an object which in turn can have accusative (frequent), dative (less
frequent) or genitive (seldom) case. Which of these ways is used for a
given verb is unpredictable. Just as in English, you have to learn it
along with the verb. "hindurchgehen" or "hineingehen" take a preposition
resembling the first part: "in etwas hineingehen", "durch etwas
hindurchgehen". Some other such verbs work the same way "mit jemandem
mitgehen", "an etwas ankleben" while others take an object "etwas
aufgeben", "jemanden mitnehmen" (this one intriguingly accusative
although "mit" takes dative).

So much for the syntax. There will often be no real difference in meaning,
just as it makes no difference whether I go into a shop or I enter a shop.
For some verbs, the emphasis is shifted a bit: "ich gehe mit Ihnen mit" (I
accompany you) is different from "ich gehe mit Ihnen" (I go/walk with
you).

I have used a different example because I do not find the sentence "sie
geht durch den Zaun hindurch" so normal. My first idea was that she must
be a ghost who passes through fences and walls without being hindered by
them. Normally you go through doors or through holes in fences but not
through fences. In colloquial, less exact language, you could say "da
vorne können Sie durch den Zaun gehen". Now, "hindurchgehen" belongs to a
more formal and less colloquial register, so the ghost misunderstanding is
more triggered with "durch etwas hindurchgehen" than with "durch etwas
gehen".

I hope it was not too confused or confusing.

[g***@ankerstein.org]

Post by Helmut Richter

Post by zvf1336
In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?
Or is "durch den Zaun hindurch" required to say "go through"?

"durch" and "hindurch" have different grammatical function. "durch" is a
preposition, "hindurch" is part of the separable verb (something akin to
an English phrasal verb) "hindurchgehen".
Let me take another example. "hineingehen" means "go in". When I say "ich
gehe in den Laden", the verb is "gehen" (walk, go) and the preposition is
"in" (into): "I go into the shop". Now, when I want to use the verb
"hineingehen" (go in), I get both "in" and "hinein": "ich gehe in den
Laden hinein", literally translated into English "I go in into the shop".
Not really good English style, but you can see the different function of
"in" (into) and "hinein[gehen]" ([go] in).
Verbs can have different ways to attach nouns: with a preposition or with
an object which in turn can have accusative (frequent), dative (less
frequent) or genitive (seldom) case. Which of these ways is used for a
given verb is unpredictable. Just as in English, you have to learn it
along with the verb. "hindurchgehen" or "hineingehen" take a preposition
resembling the first part: "in etwas hineingehen", "durch etwas
hindurchgehen". Some other such verbs work the same way "mit jemandem
mitgehen", "an etwas ankleben" while others take an object "etwas
aufgeben", "jemanden mitnehmen" (this one intriguingly accusative
although "mit" takes dative).
So much for the syntax. There will often be no real difference in meaning,
just as it makes no difference whether I go into a shop or I enter a shop.
For some verbs, the emphasis is shifted a bit: "ich gehe mit Ihnen mit" (I
accompany you) is different from "ich gehe mit Ihnen" (I go/walk with
you).
I have used a different example because I do not find the sentence "sie
geht durch den Zaun hindurch" so normal. My first idea was that she must
be a ghost who passes through fences and walls without being hindered by
them. Normally you go through doors or through holes in fences but not
through fences. In colloquial, less exact language, you could say "da
vorne k�nnen Sie durch den Zaun gehen". Now, "hindurchgehen" belongs to a
more formal and less colloquial register, so the ghost misunderstanding is
more triggered with "durch etwas hindurchgehen" than with "durch etwas
gehen".
I hope it was not too confused or confusing.

Is "sie geht durch den Zaun durch" OK? Or is "hindurch" required?

GFH

[Helmut Richter]

Post by g***@ankerstein.org
Is "sie geht durch den Zaun durch" OK? Or is "hindurch" required?

Indeed, you have the choice between all three: "gehen" (used with
"durch"), "durchgehen", and "hindurchgehen".

Most combinations of "hin-"/"her-" yield verbs that belong to a formal
register: "hindurch-", "herbei-", "hinzu-", ... . Only "hin-"/"her-"
combined with "-ein"/"-aus"/"-auf"/"-unter" occur frequently also in
colloquial language where they are often abbreviated as "rein-",
"runter-", often neglecting the dfifference between "hin-" und "her-".

I think the three verbs are more or less synonymous, and they are all
three correct in many contexts. I would use "hindurchgehen" only in formal
language, "durchgehen" mainly when there is no second "durch" in the
clause, and "gehen" together with the preposition "durch" when there is no
reason to say otherwise.

[Oliver Cromm]

Post by g***@ankerstein.org

Post by zvf1336
In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?

The difference is in emphasis. When the going through is the main
message, I'd use "durch ... hindurch". If it's only part of a longer
description, "durch den Zaun" is enough.

Post by g***@ankerstein.org
Then, on which side of der Zaun are you?

On the opposite side.

Post by g***@ankerstein.org
Both hin and her are meaningful.

Um hier herzukommen, mu$B!,(Bt Du vielleicht auch durch den Zaun hindurch.

There is no word *herd....

[g***@ankerstein.org]

Post by Oliver Cromm

Post by g***@ankerstein.org

Post by zvf1336
In trying to understand the sentence "Sie geht durch den Zaun hindurch." I
found an explanation that "durch etwas hindurch" means "through something".
But (because I understand both "durch" and "hindurch" to mean "through")
could one also simply say "Sie geht durch den Zaun." to say the same thing?

The difference is in emphasis. When the going through is the main
message, I'd use "durch ... hindurch". If it's only part of a longer
description, "durch den Zaun" is enough.

Post by g***@ankerstein.org
Then, on which side of der Zaun are you?

On the opposite side.

Post by g***@ankerstein.org
Both hin and her are meaningful.

Um hier herzukommen, mu t Du vielleicht auch durch den Zaun hindurch.
There is no word *herd....

I know that, but I tend to use herkommen and hingehen. I thinks that
it
helps to communicate the direction. My German is poor, so every
little
bit helps. <gg>

GFH